Tuesday, January 5, 2016

He is against promotion based on .......

Sunny Gale, a reader has this to say regarding "promotion" on my post http://www.bohtong.org/2015/12/too-tired-to-work-beyond-18-hours.html

This is what I called Going against Nature. Job whereby you get better as you progress through the years, it is better not to go against Nature, meaning it would be better to Promote base on Seniority. Human is happy when someone your senior is promoted, but it is painful to accept when a junior gets promoted ahead of them. It is doubly more painful when deception comes into play when you promote on Merit. Example people lose their soul and integrity, soliciting for comment forms inflight, ECA on ground, etc.
It is better to promote Cabin Crew base on Seniority then on Merit because what you are getting is not REAL MERIT but NEGATIVE MERIT.
A crew that has flown longer is definitely better then one who is new because in this job, experience has proven to be more effective, as a more senior crew would have come across many situations to learn from it. 
The equilibrium of Nature gets upset when promotion on Merit comes into play, such as crew will becomes selfish (you are unlikely to get info, ideas to improve your work as crew would be trying to safeguard their position to get promoted, they are not likely going to teach new crew, to have them promoted ahead of them isnt it.
But when promotion is base on Seniority, you get crew teaching newbies, as they feel good being senior and more knowledgeable then the junior but most of all the senior crew knows that he will still get promoted for the efforts he has put in.
When you go against Nature and upset the equilibrium of Human behavior there will always a price to pay and the price is the loss of integrity and deceit comes into play, eg ECA not done with a heart but with promotion in mind.
When Christopher Columbus states that the World is Round, nobody believed him and said that he is stupid and mad, but it turns out the whole world is wrong, our planet is indeed round.
Now I am telling you that in certain job where you get better the longer you work in it, promotion base on Merit is flawed. Basing on Seniority is the right way to go.
Stupid people, when will we ever LEARN that we are doing it wrong.


Seniority Rules..... said...


Not all job performance should be measured by merit.
Some job designs such as cabin attendants require
exposure to more situations to learn.

The work environment is very very dynamic.
Different customer profiles
Different station practices
Different weather conditions
Different flight times

There is no overall text to guide
Its allexperience.

Brilliant proposal... !!
Well articulated!

Alas!.. the nerds at the office will not have it.
On goes the 0.03% above or below the qualifying line!
Obsession with statistics... missing the wood for the trees.

Anonymous said...

What experience can one get? After 3 years (the minimum requirement to promote to next rank), the crew would be exposed to everything the 30 years crew would have been exposed to.
It has been proven that seniority in cabin crew has been exploited. Via bitching etc. Promotion should be based on merits. Period.

Snowy Beagle said...

From what I heard, promotion of pilots are still conducted by seniority, in many airlines.

I think experienced cabin crew would know better how well that works in practice as compared to in theory.

Just going by the past stories shared by BT alone, it shows that regardless of whether promotion is by merit or by seniority, there'd always be black sheeps (pilots and cabin crews) who seek to take advantage of the system in place to get undeserved promotion to a job they cannot do properly or have no qualms to abuse their positions.

Industry-wise, the future, the fates, of new pilots are in the hands of the senior pilots.
Perhaps the biggest motivation for junior pilots to keep going through it all is that their turn to be senior pilots will finally come one day and they'll have BIG pay-cheques. (Barring poor business leading management to shrink the pilot numbers).

In comparison, junior cabin crew do not have as big a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow to look forward to. And given the ratio of junior CCs to senior CCs, as compared to junior pilots to senior pilots, junior CCs would know few of them would get to that not-so-exalted position anyway.

I believe there was a time in the past when cabin crew promotion was based on seniority.

That was the time when it was still relatively common for stewardesses to stop working after getting married (or switch to ground duty).

That was the time when cabin crew gain a lot of valuable exposure, experience, skills and contacts from their job that they could continue to earn well if they quit and go into other industries like HR, hospitality, sales & marketing - while majority of the Singapore workforce did not have higher education. The alternatives for the CCs who did not get promoted were quite promising.

*That* was the time when the competition of promotion was less keen, the stake less high and rivalry less intense.

Yet going by BT's stories, there were still duds who got promoted, based on seniority.

Companies may have exchanged one imperfect system of seniority promotion to another imperfect system of merit promotion.

But the heart of the matter is still the same - people : there'll always be people who seeks to game the system.

Anonymous said...

Senior pilots will definitely get promoted faster than junior pilots becos the fundamental of pilots promotion is based on the number of sectors clocked. How many hours can a junior pilot clocked compared to a senior pilot?
Hence your argument does not stand.

Anonymous said...

Totally agreed with the above post from someone who knows what he is talking about. Different from the post who indicated that a 3 years crew know as much as a senior crew. There is new things and situation to learnt from everyday. Death, fights, Ac emergency, AOG, medical, mass food poisoningetc on board. How many will you encounter in 3 years?

Snowy Beagle said...

To Anonymous:

What you said has got nothing to do what I actually said.

There's more to being a captain than having more flying hours.

The captains respected professionally, esp. by the crew (technical and cabin), are not necessarily those with more flying hours.

Anonymous said...

There are also cleaners and sweepers whom limpeh respect more as humans than those captains or svp. And they are not necessarily those with big fat cheques or big cars

Fed up / Fed up said...

If there is a "creeping" delay on ground... what do you do?
If there a sauce or cream for meals that is missing, what do you do?
If there is a diversion to an offline airport ( no SQ ground support ) what do you do?
If there is an extra pax in J class, without a seat ( all seats occupied, doors closed, a/c already airborne ) what do you do?
If your duty hours have breached, what do you do?
If 1 cart of trays missing after airborne, what do you do?
If there is no hot water in all of Y class, what do you do?
If air-con packs not functioning on ground in Y class, temp rises to 38 celsius what do you do?

Airline operations is not so simple and straight forward like investment banking, property sales. Too many gears involved in producing the customer experience.

Many more scenarios... and management has no set procedures for you.
What do you do?

Take risks & make a decision?
and take a hit from the crew performance nerds?

Make a "poor" decision, and they will fix you
Make a "good" decision, and they ignore you.. it does nothing for your career.

Think the union should offer insurance package to help mitigate risks in decision making.
I agree that seniority based promotion is more appropriate.

SUNNY GALE said...

The POWER of Seniority can only be tested when there is a REAL emergency, such as an air crash on ground.
For the pilot, the years of accumulated data stored in your brain will put you in a better state to handle the crash.
For the cabin crew, I remember it took me many many years (10 years) to fully comprehend
the emergency procedures that i went through every year, cause CC were more interested in cabin crew aspects of thing, such as service onboard then emergency procedures. After the SEP test with a PASS, you walk out of the Room elated and happy that you have passed, but the after effect of it is that when you get into the taxi all is forgotten.
In the emergency areas, all we practically know is to open the door in emergency mode with the slide armed. BUT......... what if the slide dont inflate?? What's next. Go for manual inflation then. Ah where is the manual inflation located???? Aiyoh in an emergency all forgotten. Only a crew of a number of years seniority would more likely be able to figure it out.
Anyone who can get it right clinch the title of THE BEST OF THE BEST in emergency procedures. Bet you even the SEP instructor will have a hard time trying to figure it out where the handle is located.
Please do attempt to answer this question. It would be interesting to know the result.
Cheers Sis and Bro.

SUNNY GALE said...

Black sheeps are far in between when you promote on Seniority. Most people works hard and are dedicated to their work by our very own Nature. So you get dedication, loyalty and sense of belonging to the company, and you want to put in your best effort in your work. The black sheep, there will always be a few, (freak of nature with deceptive gene in them) so will not make an impact on the eco system of the company, and anyway there is always a KARMA attached to it, like everybody getting to know this guy/girl is a black sheep (crook) as time passes.
You are more likely to get a higher percentage of people who takes advantage of promotion from a Merit point then Seniority. Seniority is pure and simple. Merit is evil in nature.
Like I expounded, Never go against Nature cause there wiil always be a price to pay.
The day will come when Nature says, IT'S PAY BACK TIME, such as our abuse of our planet,
and see what is happening now, EARTH WARMING.
Same for promotion on Merit, it is going against Nature. If you have flown on SIA in the early year of 1977 and now, you would have experience and know the differences in the standard of service way back then and the present sorry state of affair in the standard basing on same flight and sector. At that frame of time, Promotion was based on Seniority.
Merit comes into play when America was at its height, and everybody was taken in by their system as it means you are somebody when americanised. So we follow blindly.
Merit is only applicable to certain jobs, such as a CEO, who is naturally talented, example Jack Ma of Alibaba. Such people dont have to be promoted through the rank base on seniority. Our ministers in Singapore, base on merit, YES.
But for job such as Cabin Crew and Piloting where experiences come into play, Seniority base is the way to go.
Like the song goes, When will we ever learn. Were have all the flowers gone????

Anonymous said...

You mean the ability to solve all these is very important and useful in life huh? Ask any high court judge, ministers or real bankers. Maybe warren buffet or jeff bezos or jack ma the above. You think they know or gives a shit?